Through The Legal Lens podcast on KBLA Talk 1580, my goal is to moderate dialogues on trending legal issues with keen legal insights, helping to educate, engage, and empower listeners. This week, I was extremely honored to welcome a guest whose organization is doing vital work on the front lines of racial and gender justice: Dr. Sydney McKinney, Executive Director of the National Black Women’s Justice Institute (NBWJI).
Dr. McKinney holds a Ph.D. in sociology from NYU, alongside master’s degrees in law and society and public health from Columbia University. For over 20 years, she has dedicated her career to research and evaluation as a tool for social change.
In this powerful episode, we explored the sobering realities of school pushout, the criminalization of Black girls, and how data can be harnessed to chart a new vision for a trauma-informed justice system.
Listen to the full conversation with Dr. Sydney McKinney below:
Navigating the Episode: Time Stamps
- 03:40: Dr. McKinney’s Personal “Why”: A Family Impacted by the System
- 06:10: The 10-Year History of the National Black Women’s Justice Institute
- 15:54: Sobering Statistics: The Overrepresentation of Black Girls in School Discipline
- 20:30: Gender-Based Violence and Crimes of Survival
- 25:44: The Failure of Zero-Tolerance Policies and Adolescent Brain Science
- 27:24: Counselors, Not Cops: Assessing Mental Health Systems in Schools
- 34:12: The Ultimate Solution: Listen to Black Girls
A Personal Commitment to the Work
Dr. McKinney’s impressive academic background is matched only by her deep, personal commitment to protecting Black communities. During our conversation, she shared that her earliest memory is visiting her uncle in prison—a place her child brain inherently knew was wrong. She also has an uncle she never met because he was killed by police.
“I come to this work as someone who’s deeply committed to really trying to protect Black communities, protect Black families … I don’t want families to experience the harm and strain that mine has as a result of the criminal legal system.”
– Dr. Sydney McKinney
10 Years of NBWJI & Data as a Generative Tool
The National Black Women’s Justice Institute recently celebrated its 10-year anniversary. Founded by Dr. Monique Couvson (formerly Morris), author of Pushout: The Criminalization of Black Girls in Schools, NBWJI was created to infuse the movement with data that supports direct service and advocacy.
Historically, academic research has sometimes been extractive and harmful to Black communities. At NBWJI, the approach is entirely different.
“At NBWJI, research is a generative tool. It is a way for us to tell the stories of our community.”
– Dr. Sydney McKinney
By utilizing community-based participatory research, NBWJI elevates the voices, stories, and expertise of directly impacted women and girls, using those insights to advance the collective goal of transforming the criminal legal system.
The Sobering Data on School Pushout
Dr. McKinney noted that it’s impossible to fix problems that haven’t been measured. She shared devastating national statistics from the Federal Department of Education’s Civil Rights Data Collection (CRDC) regarding how Black girls are treated in the K-12 public school system.
Despite accounting for only 15% of the public school student body, data from the 2021-2022 school year reveals that Black girls represented:
- 49% of all girls expelled.
- 38% of all girls transferred to another school.
- 37% of all girls arrested.
Black girls are the only group overrepresented in every single type of school sanction—including corporal punishment, referrals to law enforcement, and restraints.
Dr. McKinney explained that this is largely driven by “adultification bias,” where Black children are unfairly expected to behave like adults and are aggressively punished for normal, childlike behavior.
From Zero Tolerance to Trauma-Informed Systems
Zero-tolerance policies, which gained traction in the 1990s, rely on exclusionary discipline (suspensions and expulsions) rather than teachable moments. As Dr. McKinney noted, these practices are entirely misaligned with adolescent brain science, which tells us that young brains are prone to impulsivity and boundary-pushing.
When schools push children out instead of bringing them into a supportive community, it creates a direct pathway to the criminal justice system. Once in the system, the trauma compounds.
Dr. McKinney shared the staggering reality that 86% of women in jails are survivors of sexual violence, including intimate partner violence and child sexual abuse. The offenses that bring them into contact with the legal system are frequently rooted in survival—coping with harm, trying to meet basic needs, or surviving exploitation.
To address this, NBWJI convenes the Sisters in Solidarity Reentry Network, bringing together formerly incarcerated Black women who lead reentry services across the country to innovate projects that support women and girls coming home.
Actionable Solutions: Counselors, Not Cops
To dismantle the school-to-confinement pathway, Dr. McKinney advocates replacing punitive measures with restorative alternatives. She cites the “counselors, not cops” movement, emphasizing that schools must become safe spaces that protect the mental health of our youth.
NBWJI co-created the Creating Affirming, Responsive, and Equitable Schools (CARES) mental health system assessment—a tool designed alongside Black girls to help schools evaluate their relationships with community providers and strengthen their mental health care capacity.
Dr. McKinney also stressed that state suspension bans are not enough on their own. They must be paired with restorative practices like check-ins and reflective circles so teachers have positive alternatives to exclusionary discipline.
When asked how others can support this vital work, Dr. McKinney’s answer was powerful and clear.
“Listen to Black girls. That is what we do at NBWJI. We listen to Black girls. We know that they know what the answers are … They know what changes need to happen.”
– Dr. Sydney McKinney
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I have dedicated my career to helping litigants resolve their legal disputes through mediation and other dispute resolution processes, and to dissecting the legal issues that shape our public discourse and workplace dynamics, whether as a radio and podcast show host or as a legal analyst in the news.
My mission as the host of the Legal Lens radio show and podcast is to empower you with objective, expert-driven insights born from years of practice at the intersection of law and society. We are here to “Bring Light to Law” and break down complex concepts into clear, everyday language.
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Follow Dr. Sydney McKinney and the National Black Women’s Justice Institute at nbwji.org and on social media @NBWJI.
Angela’s Other Work
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This communication is not legal advice. It is educational only. For legal advice, consult with an experienced employment or civil rights law attorney in your state or city.